Curse

Arkantos · Jun 12, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Let me put one thing straight: Guru is not The Community. Guru is one aspect of the whole Guild Wars Community. Guild Wars Community exists in many different places, many of them not forums, and is a diverse entity.

Guru is not the community, you're right. But that doesn't mean other people in other parts of the community don't share the same views. I've read GWO, I've read other fansites, I've heard people in game. Guru is not the only place where views and opinions like this are stated. Many people in many places are disappointed with ANet's actions in the past year+, not just guru.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

Again: Because you personally do not like it or the way it is done (and yes, by gathering feedback in many places we are aware that there are people out there who do not like it) it is a mistake to assume that you speak for the community.

I must ask, how many people liked that they had to use real money to change their appearance rather than in game gold/items? I'm assuming not a lot. If the majority preferred it to be accessible with in game gold/items, then he's really not only speaking for himself, but for the majority of the community.

So no, we may not be 100% the community, but we are part of it, and we aren't the only ones with views and opinions like these.

Angel Killuminati · Jun 12, 2009, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Awww I used to like resurrecting dead NPC's in AB Battles. They should have kept that in, as it takes a bit of skill and timing to find and res dead ones, and then add new ones. It was fun anyway! Oh well

Sun Fired Blank · Jun 12, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

WE ARE THE COMMUNITY. IN CAPITAL LETTERS. Goddamn.

Lyphen · Jun 12, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Now, Martin, would it really be that hard to tell us skill updates are not coming this week, but maybe the next, earlier than a day after the update lands? Is there really that big of a barrier that you couldn't have told us thursday morning? Or Wednesday?

Why do we get this kind of news so late?

Black Metal · Jun 12, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by super strokey

Honestly cant people just accept "it will be done when its done" and carry on with what they have until that point. If you dont like it move on.

If enough people don't like it and do move on, GW2 will die on the vine and you won't get any support because sales are below the ability to pay staff. Be careful what you suggest.

The moral of this story is that if Anet (Martin, Regina, the ghost of Gail) doesn't keep the community engaged (as this thread illustrates, though now there's an attempt to reverse that), you won't be able to play your Gilt Worz.

Kendel · Jun 12, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I must ask, how many people liked that they had to use real money to change their appearance rather than in game gold/items? I'm assuming not a lot. If the majority preferred it to be accessible with in game gold/items, then he's really not only speaking for himself, but for the majority of the community.

Meh, i can understand why they did it though. If people really want to change there characters appearance they pay and Anet make a little money, which i would like to believe they return to the game and put to some use, although thats quite obviously wrong. Although differentiating between a Makeover and an 'Extreme' Makeover was just greedy.

Lishy · Jun 12, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyphen

Now, Martin, would it really be that hard to tell us skill updates are not coming this week, but maybe the next, earlier than a day aftet the update lands? Is there really that big of a barrier that you couldn't have told us thursday morning? Or Wednesday?

Why do we get this kind of news so late?

Being someone actually interested in the video game business, perhaps I can answer this instead of Martin.

You see, setting deadlines can totally messup schedules.
What if the update is too early? What if it's too late? What if the budget is b0rked?
There are many, MANY things to consider. But I don't work at anet, so I don't know the details. But from the mere basics of video game companies, I can tell it's not so simple.
From what I read on guild wars' team as a job, it is a very relaxed, casual form of work. As in, people don't want to be doing the infamous "Crunch time" that all video game devs fear.
They want to actually have fun with their job, rather than grinding is one damn good reason.
And if you look at the complexicity of guild wars from a technical side, any task is not easy. Even non-technical, it is hard to keep track of. For one, have you seen the huge amount of lore and dialogue in the game?

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 12, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Why do have a feeling this thread is turning into some sort of boxing match between the Devs and the community?

Also, I think it's safe to say that Toxic is right in that lack of general information is what is losing so much of the fan base. You -really- don't want to hold off too long, think your announcing an amazing development, only to look around and realize not many people care anymore.

It's not that our expectations are not being met, it's that our expectations are being LOWERED constantly every week. THAT is why so many people are aggravated.

crazybanshee · Jun 12, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Not to completely change the subject, but this update did mess up the zquests, and for those of us who were not able to pick them up in the couple hour window they were available, we kinda feel screwed. Is there any plan to put them back up, or are we pretty much SOL until the entire rotation finishes and they come up again? (I'm thinking more of the bounty and mission, since the pvp comes up frequently)

Loralai_gw · Jun 12, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

Let me put one thing straight: Guru is not The Community. Guru is one aspect of the whole Guild Wars Community. Guild Wars Community exists in many different places, many of them not forums, and is a diverse entity.

Again: Because you personally do not like it or the way it is done (and yes, by gathering feedback in many places we are aware that there are people out there who do not like it) it is a mistake to assume that you speak for the community.

I'm going to call it out. I <3 you guy's but really tell us where. Because I visit more forums (in multiple languages), more online chat rooms, more comment sections, more blogs, more gaming news sites, running around in game, then is imaginable. I'm probably up there with the best of you there at Anet. I see the overall opinion of Guild Wars out there and they are all speaking the same thing about Guild Wars. Is there some online GW Survey I've never received at pop-up? Is there some super secret Alpha testers you've brought on again for GW? Is there some weekly community gathering that no one has heard about? Some private chat room where all the GW players gather I haven't been to? Please, let us all know where we too can be enlightened about how Guild Wars REALLY is. It would serve to educate us all.

Where is the community then? Your sales figures? Your roundtable discussions amongst the devs? IM conversations with players who are there to build up ego because they are OMG! talking to a dev? Gaming conventions where the sheer awestruck of meeting game dev's overpowers fanboy's speech centers? Roommates? Magazines who are pining for an interview?

Tell me where this community is that is so elusive. Because apparently being on the Wiki, the fansite forums, the IRC channels, the news articles and interviews, other MMOG websites, blogs and in game just isn't enough community to gather an opinion from for the rest of us.

slowerpoke · Jun 12, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I must ask, how many people liked that they had to use real money to change their appearance rather than in game gold/items? I'm assuming not a lot. If the majority preferred it to be accessible with in game gold/items, then he's really not only speaking for himself, but for the majority of the community.

The addition of those features was probably more motivated for business reasons. Would they still have been added if they werent in a position to charge for them? Or even been allowed to spend time developing such features if there wasnt a profit in it.

I think theres definitely a problem with the communication between ANet and the fans. And while they might disagree, I think its clear from all the reactions every time something like this occurs.

The CMs rarely visit the forums to interact with the fans and appear more like passers on of notes from the company.
I guess its possible that the CMs are not entirely in the loop, that's how it seems at least as they don't seem to know much of anything.

You may want to rethink your policy of silence on matters of updates and future products. Theres a limit to fans patience, and its running out fast.

Martin Kerstein · Jun 12, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazybanshee

Not to completely change the subject, but this update did mess up the zquests, and for those of us who were not able to pick them up in the couple hour window they were available, we kinda feel screwed. Is there any plan to put them back up, or are we pretty much SOL until the entire rotation finishes and they come up again? (I'm thinking more of the bounty and mission, since the pvp comes up frequently)

Hm, could you give me some more details? What exactly is not working/looking borked? Will check with Joe then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Why do have a feeling this thread is turning into some sort of boxing match between the Devs and the community?

I just put my boxing trunks on

Nanood · Jun 12, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I still love Guild Wars. It has given me countless hours of fun over the last 4 years.

Happy to wait for the updates when they are ready. Honestly, the way people here are carrying on you would think Anet was holding things back as punishment.

Want you Anet staff to know that regardless of the people here and their need to bitch and moan there is much love.

I'm sure there are other people here feeling the same.

Inde · Jun 12, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Whoa... whoa.

All right, so while we learned that Anet gathers feedback (hey this is a good thing!) and that they gather it from multiple places (maybe we could know where?) and that they are listening (this is really very good) could we just back off with using the CM's as a punching bag please?

Otherwise this thread will be closed since obviously nothing constructive will come of that. They have a choice to respond here people. A choice. Let's encourage that.

English Warrior · Jun 12, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Im sorry, i have liked Anet for some time but what you have said here, you have gone down in my books, we may not be the community but surely a part of it and the community on a whole should gets its views viewed fairly even if the views vary, would you be polite enough to say what exactly you think would have happened when you don't tell us skills won't be balanced when we actually thought they would.
?

zelgadissan · Jun 12, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein

Hm, could you give me some more details? What exactly is not working/looking borked? Will check with Joe then.

Here's a thread about it. crazybanshee and I are both posters in it.

On-topic: even if it's only 2-3 hours before the update, I'm sure people would really appreciate knowing there's no skill balance coming, instead of downloading the patch, looking at the update notes, and wondering wtf.

All in all I think Anet does a wonderful job when you consider the monthly cost we pay (read: zero), but sometimes the communication does seem a little off.

pin · Jun 12, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Andrew Patrick used to do this sort of thing, especially here on Guru glad arena. When he was around you felt connected, and some of the changes seemed to tie directly into the threads/skills being discussed, too bad it didn't last.

And look how well he was treated by the community, on guru and other forums.

English Warrior · Jun 12, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Personally i think we deserved some notice there wouldn't be a skill update.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Er...no. What I mean is that if there's an update scheduled, and they realize that it's not going to be out in time - especially if the community is expecting a skill update - somebody should probably let the community know ahead of time, even if that's only two or three hours before when the update would arrive.

My point precisely.

Kendel · Jun 12, 2009, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pin

And look how well he was treated by the community, on guru and other forums.

Do you honestly think not telling us until everyones got pissed off about it is a good move?

Even if all you get is hate for it from people with 0 patience its better to announce hours or days BEFORE an update that it won't be what you expect. People arriving at Guru to find the update notes and reading... what can only be described as meaningless crap like this update are not inclined to be happy about it. They're all adults, i'm sure they can shrug it off, but if they wait until its too late they get everything they deserve and more.

Kawil · Jun 12, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Linsey's been in meetings with Izzy to discuss skill update. Can we discuss the precise scheduling or timing? No. We are aiming for next week, but you all know that in game development, things can change.

Martin and I have been doing a lot of planning and brainstorming on high level stuff that is not visible to the public, things which are not final, and which cannot at this time be shared publicly.

We want share information, but in times past when we have shared information prematurely, this has created more problems than generated goodwill, as Martin has said.

See...now at least that's information. It may not what we want to hear but it's something. I believe this is what most of us want....something. Even if it's: "it's not ready yet but we're working on it".